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(CNN) A federal judge has until January 6, 2021 to testify to a grand jury about conversations former Vice President Mike Pence had with Donald Trump, according to multiple sources familiar with the recent federal court ruling. decided.
But the judge said he could decline to answer questions related to his actions on Jan. 6, the very day Pence was presiding over the Senate for endorsement of the 2020 presidential election. According to one of the sources.
The ruling by Chief Justice James Boasburg of the US District Court in Washington, DC is a major win for Special Counsel Jack Smith, who is leading the Justice Department investigation. Pence still has the ability to appeal.
Ahead of Congress’ confirmation vote, Pence faced tremendous pressure from Trump and his supporters to sabotage lawmakers’ plans to verify Joe Biden’s victory. had a duty.
Trump’s conversations with Pence over the last few days surrounding the riots have been of great interest to investigators investigating the attacks. Despite his refusal, people around Trump told the committee about a furious phone call with Pence on the day of the attack in which he threw insults at the vice president.
Pence and Trump did not speak during the attack on the Capitol itself, where many of Trump’s supporters angrily sought him out, and Pence narrowly escaped the mob heading for the Senate floor.
Former Trump special adviser Nicholas Luna told the committee he remembered Trump calling Pence a “wimp.” Luna recalled something like Trump saying, “I made the wrong decision four or five years ago.”
And Ivanka Trump’s former chief of staff, Julie Radford, recalled Ivanka Trump telling her, “Her dad just had a maddening conversation with the Vice President.”
Radford said he was told Trump called Pence the “P-word”, a derogatory term.
For Pence’s part, many of his public comments about conversations with Trump in the days before and after the riots are included in a memoir he published last year.
In the book, Pence told him days before Trump attacked that trying to overturn the election results would be “too honest” and would incite the hatred of hundreds of thousands of people. I wrote.
The former vice president wrote in the book that Trump asked his general counsel to brief him on Electoral College procedures after he said in a Dec. 5 call that he was “disputing the results of an election in the House for the first time.” did,” he said. ”
Pence wrote that during lunch on Dec. 21, he tried to induce Trump to listen to the advice of a team of White House lawyers rather than outside counsel.
And Pence wrote what Trump said to him in a New Year’s Day phone call: “You’re too honest,” “Hundreds of thousands of people will hate your guts,” and “People call you stupid.” you would think.”
Mr Pence wrote, “Mr President, I have no doubt that there has been any wrongdoing or fraud.” “It’s a question of who decides, and under the law it’s Congress.”
Special Advisor’s Grand Victory
Smith is investigating efforts aligned with Trump to overthrow the 2020 election. Earlier this year, Smith subpoenaed Pence to produce testimony and documents.
Days after news of the subpoena broke, Pence and his advisers said the former Vice President had subpoenaed him under the constitution’s speech-or-debate clause, which protects lawmakers from certain law enforcement actions related to legislative duties. He suggested that he object to the
“I will fight the Biden Department of Justice subpoena to appear before a grand jury because I believe it is unconstitutional and unprecedented,” Pence said at an event in February. He was also president of the Senate in a certification vote on Wednesday, suggesting that the conduct investigators are looking at is contained in a constitutional clause.
The court challenge was confidential.
Pence’s claims, as he publicly states, are considered novel. His claims drew criticism from a wide range of legal scholars, including former judge Michael Luttig, a prominent conservative law figure who publicly argued that Pence should prove the election results.
Pence opposed the subpoena, but refused to obstruct congressional recognition of Biden’s victory, as Trump asked him to do so.
This story has been updated with additional details.
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