Interview: Mehdi Hasan, author, Win Every Argument

You’ve made a career out of TV discussions, interviews, and debates. How difficult is it to elicit a response from government officials and ministers?

Ministers and officials in recent years have become more cautious and more cautious in off-the-record, especially in on-camera interviews. These numbers tend to be advised and surrounded by an army of professional spin doctors and media managers. Finding has actually become a challenge. concession or admission.

But with the right mix of preparation and persistence, it can be done. In December 2015, my interview with BJP official Ram Madhav grabbed headlines after he admitted that he personally supports the reunification of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Madhav later had to retract those statements. In March 2019, my interview with former Blackwater CEO Eric Prince went viral after I had him admit to meeting members of the Trump campaign at Trump Tower during the 2016 election campaign. I was. meeting.

How important is practice, preparation, and research before an interview or debate takes place? How can it help improve the quality of interviews and the information that can be extracted from tough, stubborn subjects?

These days, it’s widely believed that public speaking is a skill you either have or you don’t. Many people see us regularly on stage and on TV and assume we’re spreading our wings, delivering ginger and mic drops from our cuffs. It’s all very natural to us. No practice, training or preparation required. I wish it was true! But it’s not. At an event he gives a 10 or 15 minute speech and the audience sees it and thinks. But we don’t know how much time was spent on that speech days, weeks, or months ago. Same with my interviews. My team and I often spend days researching prospective guests’ views and opinions, past statements and actions, and even watch and read as many previous interviews as possible. Do a role play. We “handle with steel” the opposing argument. Look for “Receipt”.

So the importance of practice and preparation cannot be overemphasized. The CEO and his consultant in communications, he quotes Somers White, “90% of the success of a talk is decided before the speaker even takes the stage.”

Do you have any interesting examples or anecdotes from tough interviews or debates you’ve had in the UK or US media?

In March 2016, I interviewed Saudi Arabia’s Ambassador to the United Nations, Abdallah Al-Mouallimi, during Saudi Arabia’s permanent mission to the United Nations. al jazeera english show up frontWe discussed the horrific civil war in Syria and Saudi Arabia’s support for the anti-Assad rebels. Did the Saudis want to see an elected government in Syria if President Assad was ousted from power? “Yes,” the ambassador replied. “I want that to happen in Syria.” There is no problem with

Saudi officials were rarely pressed by interviewers about the lack of democracy within the kingdom, the ambassador was unsatisfied with my questions, and the Saudi people were “satisfied” with their autocratic government system, Here is the rest of that particular exchange (quoted in the book):

Al-Mouallimi: “What I mean is if there was a way to anonymously and personally question ordinary people on the street…”

Me: “Yes. It’s called voting.”

Al Mouallimi: “Well, [pause] A vote in line with Western democratic lines is not always necessary…

Me: “No, along with what you want in Syria.”

Al-Mooralimi: “Okay. [Pause] Still no solution [pause] government system. “

I was able to put him on the defensive by citing his own (previous) words to the ambassador. And in the process, I created a very unique, very remarkable, very viral interview.

Oh, I got out of the Saudi mission alive too.

How important is it to know more about the nature of the audience you are trying to persuade or persuade yourself of when you are arguing or debating?

Whenever you have an audience, you can’t afford to ignore them or take them for granted. The audience is the key. They are the people correctly described as “judge and jury,” even when they are having one-on-one debates. They are the people you are trying to persuade, convince, and get into your argument.

In fact, it’s hard to overstate the power and impact of having an audience by your side when you see them agree with you and nod at what you say. I can. In my view, the audience is what military strategists call a “power multiplier.” This is an additional factor that increases the effectiveness of the force that can be deployed, while at the same time reducing the effectiveness of the enemy.

So you need to know who is in front of you – age, race, gender, professional background, etc. Research the people you are trying to convince and think through how you connect with them. must be Too often we spend all our time and energy beating our opponents in an argument. , when you are the true judge of who loses.

“The audience is never wrong,” said film director Billy Wilder. .”

You write in your book that to win an argument you have to appeal to people’s hearts, not just their heads. mosquito?

When you’re aiming to win an argument, you’re trying to let the listener make the decision. We want you to choose you over your opponent. And the choice should appeal to feelings and emotions. The heart tends to steer the head. And if it’s minds vs. heads, then pure logic is probably he’s lost by tenths at least nine times.

But what’s really interesting is that, as Aristotle pointed out over 2000 years ago, making an emotional appeal is one of the best ways to reach a reluctant audience. . You can connect with the skeptics in the crowd by telling stories, sharing personal anecdotes, and revealing the “human” side of yourself. Remember: Your audience tends to connect with you, not your arguments! So don’t just storm statistics and research.Don’t treat your audience like Spock’s gathering Star TrekHelp them feel their way to your desired conclusion.

How important are facts when it comes to debate, and are facts alone enough in a post-truth world where factual twists are sought and social media is rife with misinformation and fake news?

I understand why many people like to argue or assume that factual evidence no longer matters — building well-founded arguments that have the power to persuade people It’s impossible. Social media has made it much easier to spread misinformation. But I have not yet given up on the importance of facts: fact-checking.

In 2017, a study of over 10,000 people was published in a journal political action They found that “by and large, citizens listen to factual information, even when such information challenges their ideological commitments.” The authors of this study noted that facts can still “take precedence” when presented in the right way.

Confidence, storytelling, and emotional appeal are the limits. Pathos can often beat logos, but emotion alone isn’t enough. Allegations must be backed by solid facts. Otherwise, you will be betrayed and outwitted by someone who can connect your feelings with evidence. Winning an argument requires both emotion and fact.

Civil servants, former ministers, current ministers, intelligence officers, etc. How do you handle difficult topics when it comes to getting the information you need from them during an interview?Arguments?

My advice to fellow interviewers is: I always follow up when guests dodge or try to circumvent my questions. I try not to “get ahead”.

You have often challenged Islamophobia and stereotypical representations of Islam and the Muslim world in several TV debates over the years. How important is it to reasonably challenge Islamophobia when serving people in

Islamophobia has been on the rise around the world in recent years and appears to be a common thread linking far-right and authoritarian movements in different parts of the world. was a canary. Therefore, those of us who have mainstream media platforms and who can interview those in power have a duty to challenge the normalization of ongoing and dangerous anti-Islamic prejudices. The ideologues on the right, many of the prominent ideologues who have pushed Islamic policy, whether it is the late Israeli scholar Robert Wistrich or former Trump official General Michael Flynn, have turned against them. When you claim to be Muslim, you are trying to distance yourself from it. Appear on my show and take persistent and critical questions.

Arguments, political debates and interviews on news channels often degenerate into meaningless yelling, especially in countries like India. Anchors also do most of the shouting. How does it undermine people’s trust in the media and their credibility?

I am a big believer in the power of discussion and debate. I even wrote a book about it! I happen to agree with the nineteenth-century French essayist Joseph Joubert. Nevertheless, there is a big difference between a well-meaning disagreement and a bad-faith disagreement. Much of our media and politics has been hijacked by malevolent actors engaging in “yelling” under the guise of “debates” in the US, UK and of course India.

one of the reasons I wrote win all arguments It’s about reminding people what honest discussion and debate should be like. Those who care about our public spaces and public squares must learn to stand up against those who have corroded and degraded those spaces and squares. must be adopted.

Majid Makbool is a freelance journalist based in Kashmir.